Harnessing Data for Economic Sustainability and Decarbonization: Best Practices for Long-Term Financial Viability

Hello, and welcome, everyone, to today's panel discussion. My name is Dan Muirhead. I'm delighted to be moderating today. I am a principal consultant with Brightly Software Sustainability and Energy Analytics Group. Brightly, Siemens company, is a global leader in intelligent asset management solutions with software designed to improve capital planning and data driven decision making, as well as to support organizations in achieving their sustainability goals. Bradley's sustainability and energy analytics group layers a range of consulting services, onto those software capabilities to help building owners and managers drive operational improvements and pursue sustainability goals. To introduce briefly why we're here and why we've assembled today's esteemed panel, today we'll be gathering insights on sustainability and the role of data, from experts with perspectives with from both the commercial real estate space, and the higher education space, universities and colleges. Now when it comes to sustainability, commercial real estate and higher education certainly share a focus on operational efficiency and decarbonization buildings. But for these sectors, I expect we'll hear from our panel about, some similar and some contrasting challenges, and I'm excited to hear about those perspectives. So the goal today, in short, is to discuss why sustainability matters, why data is important, and how organizations are overcoming the challenges that they're facing. We'll also dive into what we can expect in the future on how data will be leveraged to meet those goals. So now without further ado, I'm excited to introduce today's panel. So I'm just gonna ask each of you briefly to share who you are, where you work, and what you do. So, I will start with Daryl Neate. Alright. Good afternoon. Good morning, everyone. My name is Daryl Neate. I'm the VP sustainability at the Real Property Association of Canada, coming up on three years of my role here. For those of you that are not familiar with Realpac, we represent executives and decision makers at over under thirty of the largest real estate companies in Canada. In my role at Realpac, I am focused on leading sustainability and decarbonization best practices advocacy and professional development across Canada. And prior to that, I spent some time at a large real estate company, Oxford Properties, overseeing their sustainability program across a a globally diversified portfolio. Thanks. Thank you, Daryl. I'll go next to Fred James. Yeah. Thank you. So Fred James, I head up, the education vertical market for Siemens Smart Infrastructure, and that would include both higher education and k twelve. For the purpose of today's discussion, I'm really gonna focus on the higher education perspective. Thank you. Thank you, Fred. Now Nicole. Hi, everyone. I'm Nicole Killen. I am the director of sustainability at the College of Charleston. In this role, I manage a lot of moving parts, when it comes to sustainability at the college, but mainly, within operations and academics and trying to, liaise between both sides to be able to move our goals for a more sustainable campus forward. Awesome. Thank you very much, Nicole. And finally, Craig. Hi. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Craig Munch. I'm the director of our sustainability and energy analytics team here at Brightly. As Dan already mentioned, Brightly's a software and service solutions provider that supports our clients with their asset life cycle management, including best in class MMS solution, some investment planning tools, and energy and sustainability platforms. My experience is primarily with our brightly stream utility emissions data management software and our consulting services associated with that. And kind of over my last fourteen years of experience in this industry, mostly supporting our commercial real estate clients in Canada and US. Today, my insights will be mostly from a consulting perspective, where we work closely with building operators, engineers, property managers, asset managers, sustainability teams, and others, executives, kind of on their internal reporting and planning needs and support their teams with identifying opportunities to leverage building information to drive, data driven decisions to reduce energy use costs and GHG emissions. Dan, I'll pass it back to you. Excellent. Thank you very much, Greg. So from there, I think we'll jump into our first prompt for the panel. And I'd like to go to, each of you quickly ask, why does sustainability matter in your business or in your industry? And hopefully, can you explain what you see as the link between sustainability and long term financial viability? So I'm again going to go to Daryl first. No, thanks very much, Dan. And I think it's an interesting question, and it's something where, you know, the business case, why does it matter? It's foundational. And I remember a couple of years back, it's, you know, we're past this and, you know, and everything, all all Steve full steam ahead. But it, you know, I think it has a boomerang back, and I think it is always important to address, you know, address the why. You know, so I think we've all seen a really interesting, and, and shifting political climate in the US, and in Canada recently. I think we've all felt, you know, CEOs, priority list, sustainability maybe falling down the list a little bit. But I I I would submit that there's a few things that are still true. Number one, you know, many investors have net zero targets in place. And while they may be pulling back publicly from alliances or, profiling and discussing them in a lot of detail, given some greenwashing and other regulations here in Canada at least. You know, I I see investors holding firm on those, particularly in Europe and Canada. So I think that's still true. Regulators at the city, state, provincial level, across North America continuing to pass and implement laws targeting disclosure and emission reductions for buildings. Number three, large institutional, tenants are still demanding more sustainable buildings even if they don't wanna pay for them. Top talent, I would submit, is still looking for companies with a strong purpose and sustainability commitments. And last but not least, I think the accelerating physical consequences of a change of climate are becoming more acute and and felt by by, by all across the economy. You know, storms, floods, fires, and extreme heat. So that's why I think it matters. And we do know from surveying our members that the climate risk and in energy management are the top two sustainability priorities. So I think that's why it matters. On the financial side, I'll just make a couple of points. First, it's it's really you know, climate risk has the potential to impact revenues, operating costs, capital costs, cap rates. So there's a really broad potential for impact, and we're seeing those play out and hearing, you know, kinda seeing, stories and examples from our members. I would also submit that, transition and physical risks are creating a significant risk of mispricing of real estate assets, across markets, and asset classes. One recent example of this, you know, one of our members recently disposed of multi res portfolio, in a region with extreme heat issues, emerging extreme heat issues, drought issues, water issues. Issues. So climate risk was a factor in their decision making. It wasn't the sole factor. But, essentially, their message to me was, you know, we don't think the market has fully priced the physical climate risk here yet, and they wanted to exit exit before it did. So, you know, I I do think that, you know, just kinda closing out and think, you know, kinda wrapping on it. I think leading real estate players will figure it out, and they're gonna look at their assets and figure out which ones are mispriced and in what direction and use this to inform their investment asset management disposition choices. And I think they'll also be, you know, kind of proceeding and and continuing to decarbonize their assets, which is improving the competitiveness and their ability to secure market or premium rents, going forward as the climate transition unfolds. Thank you, Daryl. That's a it's very interesting insights in there, and I think the pricing of risk into, commercial real estate decisions and the impact of climate risk on that certainly is a hot topic in what I hear, but also something where the industry is still catching up and understanding just what to do. I'm interested to turn to an education perspective. So, Fred, what are your thoughts, on this same prompt? Yeah. No. I I appreciate that Daryl's comments. I think they're pertinent to, you know, building owners across many verticals, including higher education. In higher education, first and foremost, why sustainability matters. Hundreds of colleges and universities have committed to carbon neutrality, and that journey remains a high priority. And that that commitment's typically at the, you know, presidential level. So, you know, that that is important. In terms of, you know, the stakeholders, we're talking about students, we're talking about faculty. It matters to them as well. And some of the students in particular, you know, use sustainability as an enrollment or a retainage, decision. And, of course, you know, students translates into revenue, at a time when in the US, the national demographic, you know, has kinda hit that enrollment cliff that we've been talking about. And so the competition for students and the associated tuition is as fierce as ever. And again, sustainability matters to them, so it it matters to the institutions. And then in terms of financial viability, you know, the decarbonization journey is gonna be multifaceted, and it's unique, to each, institution. But at its core, you know, we're trying to drive operational efficiency. We're trying to drive down operational costs through energy efficiency, and also the process involves upgrading, you know, aged infrastructure and modernization of that infrastructure. And you know, financially resilient. So a lot of reasons, but, clearly, sustainability matters. Thank you, Fred. And, Nicole, I guess, curious if you have any, specific insights, to your experience at the College of Charleston, to layer onto this. Yeah. Fred, I feel like, gave a lot of really good insight, and I was sitting there and I was just, like, nodding like, yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. And I think, you know, coming from the specific higher education background, sustainability deeply matters to all institutions because like Fred said, and also like our mission is to prepare students for the future, whether that be academically, social, and then also environmentally. And so at the College of Charleston, we recognize that sustainability is not just about reducing environmental impact, but it's also about building resilient systems. And as Fred was touching on with the operations and trying to build in that, upgrading all of the facilities at the college. We're over two hundred and fifty years old. It's a very historic city, and it also floods a lot. And we are very, at risk, if you will, of different climate hazards. And so being able to, use these sustainable practices to lead to cost savings and risk reduction, and also will increase that reputational value. For example, being able to improve energy efficiency and waste reduction programs will, improve operational costs over time. And then also sustainability enhances our appeal to protective, well, prospective students, faculty, and also donors who are increasingly prioritizing institutions with stronger values and forward thinking commitments. Fred mentioned how a lot of administrations are committing to being net zero for carbon emissions, and the College of Charleston is one of those. So we, are in the president's climate leadership commitment through second nature, and so we've committed to being climate new or carbon neutral by twenty fifty. And we also have that goal as an institution. And even just within the last year, our environmental sustainability studies program as a major for students has exponentially increased in, in favor. So it is growing by students. It is growing by, just interests. And I think that link between sustainability and financial viability is very clear, especially when we act with that long term thinking in mind by conserving resources and fostering equity and strengthening community partnerships, we are able to create a more adaptable and resilient institution. Excellent. Thank you very much, Nicole. And I think I've heard from both, Daryl's answer and, from yours and Fred's that, some of the drive, is coming from investors in commercial real estate. Some of the drive is coming from donors in the education space, and I think that goes to show those decision makers, those investors, aren't strictly making those push out of what does it say a goal of sustainability for the sake of. They really see the financial viability, the value of their investments being tied to whether or not these institutions will function in a zero carbon economy, whether these institutions, are at extreme climate physical risk. So it is, interesting to see that that push is there. That is still there irrespective of, any political context. And that, I guess, will take me to our next prompt. I'll just advance the slide here. So I'm curious to ask what the state of the market is in your industry in terms of sustainability related data collection and reporting. And as a bit of a follow on to that, whether there are tools that, organizations should invest in to advance, their energy management sustainability goals. So, I'm going to this time go to Fred first. Alright. So the state of the market, I think right now, there's a great recognition that campus facilities departments need to leverage new and powerful digitalization tools, which starts with data, you know, leading toward, you know, AI driven tools. At the same time, many campuses don't yet have sort of a complete high confidence and accessible, you know, think cloud based, you know, data platform that's necessary to drive a lot of these, you know, new digital tools, and ultimately, AI empowered tools. And so when we talk about, you know, reporting for sustainability purposes, there's a lot of inconsistency. You know, some some colleges have a complete, you know, energy and emissions, data platform, but many don't. And, those that do, don't necessarily have it in a form or fashion that's, you know, campus wide and represents sort of an integrated data lake. Again, that's, again, necessary to power advanced, tools that are, you know, coming at us fairly swiftly. So, I think the journey is different for, a lot of folks, but there's a lot more attention now on, you know, how do we collect, integrate, and harness that data both for energy and sustainability purposes, but also for the greater good of the facilities department toolbox. I I'd be really interested in in hearing, you know, specifically, like, from Nicole as to, you know, what the situation is at the College of Charleston. Yeah. I think you touched on a lot of really important things, especially in the higher education sector. I think, you know, we recognize that there is an importance for having a comprehensive data collection meeting and reporting all of our, progress toward different goals that the institution may have. At the college, we absolutely agree that data is foundational to any serious sustainability or decarbonization strategy. And without accurate, accessible, and prioritize investments, track progress toward different carbon goals, and even leverage powerful capabilities of various tools that are out there. So currently, like many, institutions, we do face challenges with this fragmented data system because energy data comes from a spread of different utility services. Like I mentioned earlier, the college is over two fifty years old, so they're set in their ways for a lot of things. So getting them up to speed with, okay, how can we change what we're doing to be able to make it more effective, more efficient, and easier for, the future. And a lot of the time now, we're realizing that this comprehensive analysis is very time consuming and rather almost reactive rather than proactive. And so we were fortunate enough to be able to work with Siemens, for energy savings contract and develop a decarbonization glide path for the college. And this really kicked off this effort to figure out how to centralize and start analyzing a lot of that utility data that we have. Granted, there's still a lot of work to be done, but at least now we have that baseline of, like, okay. This is the data that we're gonna use, and this is how we collect it. This is where we keep it. This is how we store this information to be able to track moving forward. I think a barrier to most campuses, including ours, is not just cost, but the coordination it takes between IT and facilities and the sustainability offices and administration even. And it's a really big lift, but it's one that becomes more and more urgent as expectations around transparency and carbon accounting continue to grow. Great. And, I definitely, picked up on you mentioning that a key was the centralization of, utility data in particular, to start driving decision making. That's certainly familiar, ever familiar endeavor from, my experience working mostly with commercial real estate. And so I'd like to turn it to Daryl next, for his insights on the same thoughts. So state of the market, in terms of sustainability related data collection, and reporting. What are you seeing in the industry? Yeah. Thanks, Dan. You know, state of the market, generally speaking. So we RealPack does a survey of our members, every year on on sustainability. So we've got a couple of maybe a couple of data points I'll share. One on reporting, and a second on targets, net zero targets. So about sixty eight percent of Canadian commercial real estate companies are reporting on scope one and two emissions. About fifty percent are reporting on scope three emissions. This number is about a year old now. I suspect they'd be fairly close to the same if not kinda gone up a little bit, with the wild card being scope three. Not sure if that's gonna go up or down. On on target settings. So a second data point, fifty percent of our members or Canadian commercial real estate companies more broadly, I would suggest, are setting net zero targets. And as I mentioned earlier, we don't see as many people backing off of those, as much as changing positioning on how they promote it or speak about it in public facing materials. You know, I kinda that's kinda supported by a fact I saw recently, that that suggests seventy percent of Fortune Global five hundred companies have set sustainability goals. So not quite net zero targets. That's obviously a little bit broader. But, the one thing that went along with that stat as well was there's a bit of a gap between targets and accelerated action. And I I wanna pick up on that a little bit. You know, I I think as a as an industry more broadly, you know, real estate, I think there's, you know, commitments. It you know, kinda got that down. I think there's a a real challenge in in implementation, and there's a lot of reasons for that. We we actually put out a report late last year talking about decarbonization, some of the barriers, some of the, you know, kind of the things we need to do going forward. But, you know, couple of them, capital technology people. Don't wanna go down that rabbit hole, but, you know, on the implementation side and bringing it back to tools, you know, I think you you absolutely, you know, my experience, you absolutely need a tool, and it's gonna level it's gonna depend upon your level of sophistication. You know, we have some members, some companies I see at the early stage using tools just to start out, measure, and manage energy and emissions, and it's a great starting point and lots of great tools out there that could do that. I think the more advanced companies are really trying to leverage their data and other information, to drive deep insights, call it climate intelligence, to really understand, more deeply across the organization how climate risk are gonna impact revenues, operating costs, capital costs, cap rates. So I think there's there is that that range and that spread. Maybe one last thought, actually kind of picking back up on a on another survey we did. We talked to thirty five of our members. We had thirty five members respond to a survey on sustainability data management platforms. So that very specifically, as an issue. And, you know, talk about satisfaction. You know, thirty five percent of our our, you know, the the respondents were were satisfied with their sustainability data management provider. Twenty six percent dissatisfied. Twenty four percent neither satisfied nor dissatisfied. So I feel like that's a fairly high number to be on the fence. And so I I know once you kind of engage with a a data provider, it it become it there is some challenges kind of, switching to other platforms, because you've invested a lot of time and energy enough. But it did show me that there's a fair number of people on the fence. Twelve percent very satisfied. So if we go, twelve and thirty five, that's, you know, forty seven percent satisfied or is it very satisfied? It's almost half. So it just depends if you're glass half full or glass half empty kind of person. But and the three percent very dissatisfied. So I thought that was that was quite interesting. Maybe just kinda round it out with a couple of last data points. What were the top two issues that we heard? We said, you know, what are the issues with your with your sustainability data management provider? And there were two that kinda rose to the top. Fifty three percent suggested an analytics issues, so difficult to use analysis tools, inability to query or drill into data, difficult to analyze data to get actionable results. So I think that was interesting that, you know, a little over half said that. And then, just under half, forty seven percent said data collection issues. So inaccuracy, low quality data gaps, you know, errors in the data collection process. So all things that I'm sure many on the line that have been doing this for a long, long time, you know, no surprises there, but, maybe some of you that are newer, some some interesting data points there for you. Yeah. I really appreciate that, Daryl. And I those priorities, pain points, certainly, mesh with, I think, the experience that I've seen. Craig could probably reiterate that as well with using a utility data management platform, commercial real estate, and trying to get the most out of it. So I guess finally now we'll just go over to to Craig on that same point. So anything else, Craig, that you would like to, layer on from your experience, both with respect to the collection of data and reporting data, and know, using tools to advance your energy management, decarbonization goals. Yeah. Thanks, Dan. And, I think the other panels have covered a lot of, a lot of the core topics already, and I and I'm hoping I can maybe elaborate a little bit on on some of those themes, and and just, really talk about when it comes to data collection or reporting. I I I kinda group data into three buckets of information really. And I know there's a lot of others that you can, but really, I look at it like utility and emissions data as being one bucket, building and equipment data being another, and then maybe interval and real time operational data as a third bucket. And and I kinda group it like that because I think at the at the foundational level, utility and emissions data is is needed. And and, you know, Fred and Nicole and, Daryl have already commented on that, but my sense is kinda, the market has a good grasp on that information one way or another. Maybe it's in the platform, maybe it's not, but the but that data is being collected somewhere. With utility counts that they're responsible for paying, tend to be the primary source of that information with, you know, emissions data and mission factors overlaying on top of that. There's still, I think, a wide, wide range of where that data is being kept. Who is keeping it? Is it the accounting team, operations, sustainability, or other? It it it does change from kind of business to business and vertical to vertical. But, again, most of our organization found a way to track that. But I think to Daryl's point, there are challenges with that at the end of the day too. Obviously, the accounts that you're responsible for, that that's a little bit cleaner and a little bit easier to get access to from a utility emission standpoint. But there's also, there's also kind of tenant or third party data that might not be as readily available, that you wanna include in your overall plan. So you might be looking at a holistic approach, when it comes to sustainability reporting or sustainability decision, making, and having access to the whole picture, the utilities that you're responsible for, the utilities that you're not an addition to that. So that's kind of a and a challenge on utilities and mission side of things. On the building equipment data buckets, the second bucket there, you know, the market is a bit more divided there where, you know, some organizations, I think, are further ahead compared to the peers. You know, building information, we've talked about, you know, asset value already, square footage, GLA, etcetera. Etcetera. Kinda that's a standard building information that that tends to be readily available since it's required for various internal and supporting needs already. But then having good reliable equipment data tends to have some gaps, I'd say. You know, oftentimes when we work with clients, there there's a wide range around what are they tracking, how are they tracking their equipment, how what what's kind of driving the capital plans, is there a master list of equipment for their property, or and then if they do have, have access to that, is that information out of date or not complete or is readily available? And and, you know, there's kinda two parts, having that access to utility data and then having access to the equipment data to kinda make that holistic, decision making is key. So having a, you know, a tool available to help, make those capital planning decisions, whether it's gonna be like for like or a decarbonization focus measure or options weighing those, you need to have that good asset data, equipment data to make those decisions. And then the third bucket, interval data and real time data. This is where I I hear there's a desire for more and, maybe Nicole can nod her head if that's true too, but it's you always want more interval and more real time data. That's what we hear a lot from the operations team as well to understand how the building is operating real time versus, through the utility data that could be delayed. Main meter utility interval data can be accessible, you know, from utility vendors at times, but but often it's not centralized. It's not brought into a centralized location, which we try to do as much as possible. Submeter or check meter interval data where it's available has has similar challenges to that main meter, where it's often available through another third party application, but that tends to make it less usable in combination with, again, the BIS or utility data as a whole. And then the third kind of interval data that we we we tend to tap into is building automation or building management system data, require that to you know, right now, you can trend that through the local BAS, and and but that tends to have challenges around storage cap capacity, only being able to train, you know, weeks or months at a time, through our offering kind of operational metrics. We're trying to get access to that data, stored in the in the cloud so that you can look at that over, longer periods of time and save that data for longer periods of time. And that kinda goes back to what Fred said earlier on about leveraging good data with the AI tools that are coming available too. And we're already building algorithms to help identify anomalies in that data too, so that you can help and drive insights with that. So, again, the tools I already mentioned, centralizing it, energy manager stream on our side for leveraging that data, internal and external reporting requirements, origin from a from a capital planning and building data and developing those detailed capital plans. And I think I'd also mentioned just kind of briefly the tools available about, you know, pulling those one time reports like facility condition assessments or or energy audits or decarbonization studies, pulling the information out of those and putting them into the centralized platform to kind of bring the utility and equipment data together, to make those informed decisions. Alright. So Craig has, teed us up nicely, in some of what he said there for where I'd like to go next with this discussion, because, one of the topics that came up there was, the fact that data can live in different places. Somebody is making decisions about capital planning, but there are sustainability or sustainability data related insights that could or should feed into that decision making that often don't. And so the next question I'd like to give to the panel here is what are the common challenges that organizations are facing when trying to integrate sustainable practices into business operations, and into capital planning. And how can you, or how is your business, or how can businesses in general overcome that challenge? So, I'm gonna go to Nicole first. Nicole, what do you think about this? Yeah. I think there's a lot of challenges. I think one that I've seen a lot, especially as I've been working with facilities in our capital projects teams are, sustainability can sometimes be viewed as an add on rather than a core component of operations. And so this can manifest in various different ways, whether that be limited budgets or time constraints or, again, that hesitation to disrupt existing systems that are already at play. Another major hurdle that we've kind of already talked about is just the lack of accessible data and clear metrics that are there. And so without reliable data on energy use or emissions, water, waste streams, whatever it may be, it can be difficult to set those goals and be able to plan accordingly. And there's also that stakeholder buy in, especially when those sustainable solutions can sometimes require a higher upfront cost, and you have to build that into the budget, especially when you're talking about capital projects. And I don't know. I'm sure other institutions can feel this way too, but sometimes at the college, and one of the main goals that I have is to kind of break down the existing silos that we have here. And so I think, that's just one challenge that I've seen is that capital planning, operations, academics, they don't always speak the same language. And so trying to figure out how we can, work together so that we don't slow progress or miss opportunities for that synergy. And so a few things that we've been working on is trying to, first of all, building sustainability into our strategic plan and, more so administrative, goals. And so that having aligning sustainability with our goals and with the broader mission and values of the institution, it becomes a lot easier to be able to justify sustainable investments, and making different cases to leadership. Another thing is just starting with low hanging fruit. And so we found success to be able and prioritizing projects that offer really quick wins, to be able to start and build that momentum and then demonstrate the value to be able to work toward those bigger projects in the future. Another one is, to use data to drive different decision making, for from different leadership or different rooms that you go into. And so, being able to provide different data that will help track performance and communicate the impact that you're having, and be able to also share this transparently to build trust and that accountability from different stakeholders. And the last thing that I had here is, to also create cross functional teams and being able to collaborate between sustainability staff and facilities and finance and academics to really ensure that environmental considerations are integrated early and that it has a very diverse decision making team to be able to really think through all of the challenges that come up. And so just thinking through a lot of overcoming any of these challenges any of these challenges, really needs to be a shared responsibility and being able to, embed not just in the missions, but in the processes, the budgets, the daily decisions, and everything that comes with that. That's really interesting. I think, I heard a lot there, that could have been, copy pasted into the perspectives of somebody working in commercial real estate as well. And I'm, curious, Craig, in light of, sort of what you were just discussing discussing, what do you think of what, you've heard from Nicole there, and the challenges that you see? Yeah. I I think that's right, Dan. Like, Nicole, there's a a lot of themes there, that that translate into what we're experiencing as well. And and and maybe just building on kind of what you were saying, but also, kind of what I was saying in the last section there too is kind of, like, you can kinda group those challenges into similar buckets where utility data around getting access to all that information that's needed for those internal planning and target setting and, you know, internal external voluntary mandatory reporting. You know, we tend to support our clients around ways of navigating those challenges or getting access to that data, like, whole building use data through available, opportunities to get whole building use instead of individual utility bills or, looking at ways of leveraging sub meters or check meters or, MRM app to kinda collect that, you know, more granular data to fill in those gaps so that when you're having those cross collaboration team meetings, you're you're looking at, you're looking at the whole picture of utility information. And I guess from the building equipment data challenges, you know, it's primarily around having that trustworthy up to date equipment data. So, you know, when was the last time that there's a full assessment done on the facility condition assessment or billing condition assessment? Do you have a good sense of what the equipment, what stage of their life cycle are they in? Are they still in maintaining repair? Or we have to start planning for, replacement because, obviously, those, replacement decisions gonna have a bigger impact on, you know, the next twenty five to forty years of of overall, emissions and costs and operations. So, having a good data, trustworthy data, underlying, you know, what options are available for when those when the time comes to do that capital replacement. And then interval and real time data, the challenge that I kinda see there and and someone has already mentioned is kind of around the cost. So see with getting that information and and making sure that you're spending, you know, the limited capital that's available. You wanna make sure that you're spending it wisely. So, where can a full summary check system be implemented, maybe starting with, the the main stuff, the main pieces of equipment, that that you wanna get that additional insight into because you know that it'll have a larger impact on your overall financial and sustainability plans, at the organization level. I think the kind of tying that all together, you know, that there's an example. What our plans coming due in five years, now is the time to start planning for that replacement. You know, asking yourself questions around what data do you have now, what data do you need, what options are available, what changes can I make today to help improve the operations of that power plant so I can right size the equipment when it comes time to replacement? So things like that. Great. Really interesting stuff, Craig. Thank you for all that. And, I finally like to give Fred a little space from, your perspective. Anything, you'd like to layer on to, what we've heard on this topic? Sure. So, Nicole and Craig talked a lot some about some big picture challenges, and there are many challenges, right, that organizations face with regard to sustainability. I kinda, like to dial back to one of the themes, which is data, and that, data access and workflow integration is absolutely essential. And we think about, you know, an example of leveraging data, fault detection and diagnostics is a popular, means of identifying, you know, quick operational improvements and also, pinpointing, you know, maintenance, issues and inefficiencies that can be addressed. But when you think about the workflow there, you know, it starts with data access. We then perform the fault detection and diagnostics analytics. The output from that needs filtering typically as well as prioritization. And then if it's not routed into maintenance workflows effectively, it's not going to yield the desired result. And so, you know, a common challenge in higher education is expecting that an already over overloaded campus operations and maintenance team is gonna be able to manage sort of yet another disparate software tool. And frankly, that's why many, if not most, FED pilots fail. And so I think there's the growing recognition that, you know, to take on one of these new approaches or tools, you know, is more than a piece of software. Right? It's an investment that involves data and integrated workflows. And in order to achieve that, it really comes down to, you know, people process and and technology. And, you know, having partners who can work with an organization, to ensure that, you know, data software workflow integration, you know, happens upfront and then providing supplemental services as may be necessary, to yield the desired results. So, long winded statement, but essentially, it it talks about the upfront investment necessary to leverage data into what we're trying to do. Great. Thank you, Fred. Yeah. So what I'm hearing, from everyone is, there's investment necessary, but it has that value absolutely. And sent central to fixing the challenges that everyone's facing is having the data so that you can tell the right stories in the right rooms to make the best decisions possible. So with that, I think I'd like to move on to our next question, but looking forward to the future. So how do you see the role of data, software, and consulting support evolving in the context of sustainability and decarbonization, over the next data over the next decade, pardon me? And as a follow on to that, what advice might you give to organizations that, are starting their journey toward toward integrating sustainable practices and harnessing data? So, I'd like to, give Daryl the chance to, answer this. Just Daryl, quickly before we start, I actually, wanna make sure the audience is aware that, we may have a few minutes at the end to address a couple questions from the audience. There is a Q and A function, so feel free to type in a couple of questions, and we'll try to address them if we have time at the end. So with that, yeah. Daryl, your thoughts on what comes next? Yeah. Thanks, Dan. Maybe before I do that, I'll just I just thought I'd reflect on the fact that we're we're still early in the overall journey. You know, it it really has not been that long that we've been managing energy data and, you know, practicing greenhouse gas accounting. I think that that kind of is important to say because sometimes I feel like we we get ahead of ourselves and we think we've been doing this for a while. I mean, financial accounting has been around for hundreds of years. We've been doing this for maybe fifteen years in the commercial real estate industry at least. Seriously, maybe leaders for a little longer than that. But I do think we are still somewhat early in the journey. So maybe to be a little bit gentle on ourself for some of the challenges, I think, and, as we think about where we are and where we're going. But, looking forward, three things for me. AI is disrupting everything, and I think this space is no different. I think the next three to five years are gonna be extraordinary, to see the progress. You know, I do think that there are certain tasks that, obviously, AI is is helpful with general tasks, you know, air friendly tasks, if you need a first draft, digital stuff. You know, so, you know, a lot of these things, if we think about energy management and and and carbon, you know, carbon emissions, managing it. I I think there's a lot of the analytics and a lot of things. I think there's a lot of opportunity, and and I think my my sense is embrace it. I think embrace it, leverage it. I think I'm sure folks and organizations like Brightly are leveraging and it will continue to. And I know all of us at our own organizations are able to, you know, I I heard someone describe it recently as, you know, a lot of us think of AI as a smart junior colleague. You know, give them some stuff and, you know, kinda give them the, you know, the grunt work. And I think that's great, and that's what I meant by, you know, general air friendly digital. But I I also heard and and kind of started to play around with it myself as, you know, AI as a really senior thinking partner, help you actually think better and think through things. I I I think it's pretty pretty powerful when you look at the amount of of of information data in some of these AI models. So, I would say AI is a disruptor, and embrace it it would be one large trend, or or thought for the future. The second is I'm gonna go the exact opposite direction, and I'm gonna say I think the fundamentals will stay the same. So here's my case for people. I I do think that there is a a flow to this. There is a, you know, precision in measuring, energy and emissions, devil in the details there. I think there's benchmarking. I think there's target setting, you know, taking action, having well thought out action plans, reporting on things accurately and with the right nuance, and, you know, managing up through and across organizations, which is, you know, an absolutely, you know, people, centric thing. I know Nicole and, and and Craig and and Fred spoke about, you know, people and across organizations. And and I think the people side of this is can't be underestimated. People make decisions. People drive this stuff forward, and I think they will continue to do that, supercharged by AI. But, I think people will still be the core. And then a third trend that I I I thought I'd speak to is I do see a really significant trend on the integration of account accounting and sustainability functions. So I do think the CFO, you know, the c the the finance teams, you know, board c suite involvement in, you know, kinda sustainability numbers given the increased, you know, profile and scrutiny of of data. I mean, I remember the first few reports I put out. I mean, I had a few people looking over and say, yeah. Good to go. You know, I I think that is that is changing. Lots of controls and processes and, you know, for for very good reason. So the lights are shining brightly on this. Maybe not as brightly as they were last year or the year before, but I do think the importance of third party audited data, you know, the the having the right controls in place. And and finance teams are just really good at that stuff, and have deep experience with that. So I do see there, you know, I do see across our membership and and more broadly, bit of an integration there. So AI, a little bit of the fundamentals in people and, you know, that integration of accounting and sustainability is three thoughts kinda looking forward. Wonderful. Thank you, Daryl. Next, What are your thoughts on, what is coming up in the next decade? Yeah. So as we look forward, I think, there's a lot to be excited about. And and one of the reasons that I really enjoy working with with higher education is that they continue to demonstrate sustained leadership in sustainability and in embracing data and, you know, driving the technology innovation that we're experiencing. And there's a recognition by the campuses who haven't already, and many of them have, to establish that smart campus foundation, you know, which includes, you know, putting in building level submetering, you know, putting in the sensors to enable FDD, to embracing the cloud, you know, for data aggregate aggregation and enablement of new visualization type tools, as well as workflow integration. And through all of that, I think a lot can be accomplished certainly with the sustainability and decarbonization journey, but overall just sort of improving campus operations and and driving, you know, that, kind of financial resilience that we started off with. So, expect a lot to happen over the next decade, and I think higher education will continue to be an innovation and decarbonization leader. Awesome. Thank you, Fred. Nicole, anything you'd like to add? Yeah. I think kind of echoing what both of them said, I think it'll be data and software will just continue to grow. One thing that Daryl noted that I was like, oh, yeah. You're right. Is that it it is new and it's changing, and we kind of have to give ourselves grace for that and understands, like, what it can help us with, but then also understand our own capacities to be able to deal with what's coming our ways. I think just the complexity of decarbonization across energy systems, supply chains, transportation waste, whatever it may be, will require data to be able to drive informed decisions. And so being able to see where data and software can become essential for achieving and also proving progress with whatever you're doing and whether it's tracking, building energy use, or monitoring greenhouse gas emissions, or evaluating life cycle for purchasing purchases and decisions, being able to move forward and toward a future where data will drive a lot of the different strategies. And, I talked about this earlier, but becoming a place where transparency is expected and not just optional. I think a lot with higher education, where we can be and students do expect a lot from the staff here. And so being able to give them the numbers and be able to show them, like, where we're going and what we're doing. I think a few a few pieces that I wanted to hit on, with this question specifically is, I think a lot of stuff is always thrown at us. And so being able to let the data guide you and not paralyze you, and being able to understand that even the basic data collection can uncover a lot of different things and, come up with different opportunities. And you don't have to wait for the perfect system to exist, to begin taking that action. And so being able to use what you have and then continue to scale as you go. And then also not letting perfect be the enemy of good. I feel like we always hear this, but, sometimes we're in this world where we have to feel we feel like we have to have it all figured out. And so instead, just begin by understanding what the environmental footprint is that you're in and then being able to identify where that potential impact can be and starting simple and working your way up and being honest and transparent with the data that you do have. And then I think we already said this, but engaging your people, celebrating progress and kind of learning from different peers and networks and organizations that you have and continue to, learn through these webinars. I think, at the end of the day, sustainability isn't a destination. It's a mindset. It's a process. It's, the more that we're able to use data and collaboration, we'll be able to, change a lot of the way things that we're doing for the better, and be more impactful in our work. So Thank you, Nicole. And finally, over to Craig. It's hard to follow those three responses already. I think that was that was great, and I'd love to hear some of the the the shared trends and thoughts there. I think I think the the thing that we kinda mentioned earlier, you know, the, from Daryl that that manager requirements are gonna continue to grow locally and regionally. Some of those coming with financial penalties and, you know, having to make some informed decisions, in advance of those is gonna be important. I think giving ourselves grace is a good one and and and getting our understanding of, you know, equipment information to make those decisions, smart decisions, data driven decisions, for the big capital projects knowing that there's gonna be a a long term twenty five, forty year impact on those buildings, on the asset values, on the GHG emissions, and also on the operations of the equipment, as as the as, as those bigger ones are hard to kind of retrofit or take a step back on, and you wanted to kinda move forward on those ones. And I think, just in the interest of of kind of skipping over some of this, I think, start tracking data now is something I think Fred mentioned earlier too, and it kinda along the themes of giving ourselves some grace. You know, we're all at different points in this journey, but I think that earlier that we can kinda start tracking that data, with the advancements and algorithms and AI. Having that data available to have trustworthy information to build those models and, build those insights off of is gonna be extremely important. And I think the last thought I might have here is, also just don't forget about those operational changes and the material impact that they can have on our sustainability channel. It's not all about the big equipment changes. It's also about how we run our assets today. Lean on your software and your consultants to support you. I think Nicole mentioned your network. I think this community and this network is very open to sharing ideas and and supporting on initiative. And and so kinda lean on those individuals to help you and and look at recommissioning systems, identifying opportunities, improve buildings today, and then that'll help you continue to collect data and develop your capital plans for tomorrow. Great. Yeah. Thanks, Greg. And everyone's done a good job of, tying up some of the themes of our larger discussion, but I've noted down a few things that really struck me, stuck out to me through this conversation. I mean, first of all, sustainability is important. It's complicated, and it requires a lot of data to do it right. But as Nicole said, let the data guide you, not paralyze you. Even early data gathering steps, the first, you know, big actions that you take will lead to insights, will lead to actions, if you're just willing to keep your eyes open with it. Everyone is early in this journey, as Daryl said, compared to financial reporting. This is young, at least in terms of the integration of climate related risks and opportunities, into decision making. So we're all going to be learning, as the years go on with the best way to bring that data to light to make those decisions possible, will be. Now there's standardization, regulation coming into the space, so that investors, donors, and other stakeholders, have the info they need to appropriately make their decisions. And something I wanna underscore quickly is that something like the SEC's climate rule or Canadian Sustainability Standards Board, these notions of mandatory disclosures, which a lot of organizations either were focused on or are currently focused on, they don't necessarily exist to force you to decarbonize, but they're there so that you're providing disclosure that now we're collectively acknowledging, that investors and stakeholders want to have in order to evaluate whether they want to invest in business or donate to, to a college or what have you. So, those climate related risks and opportunities are going to require a lot of data just to disclose. But, investors care, donors care, and, as a couple of you pointed out, talent cares as well. People want to work somewhere where they know that they can make a difference. Final tying up insight. I love the way that, Daryl put this. People make decisions, powered by tech, but the tech will be evolving. But in everything that may seem to be changing rapidly in this space, especially with the emergence of a of AI, People are gonna be at the core making these decisions, just with more and more tech to support them. So really appreciate, everyone's insights today. I am not seeing any questions, in our Q and A right now, but I do believe we could quickly, throw out a little, audience poll. So, I'll ask maybe if we can coordinate throwing that up for our participants. Thank you. And the question is, what is your largest barrier to meeting your energy management and long term decarbonization goals? So I'm curious to see, of those in attendance today, what you feel from your organization's perspective serves as a barrier. Now, let's see if we will see these answers coming in. We'll give this a moment. Okay. So, what I'm seeing is the overall dominant answer. Two thirds of folks Vansard have said capital investment constraints. Now, this, I think, doesn't come as a surprise. I'm also seeing a fair amount of few people have selected at the changing political landscape. A few have selected internal resourcing priorities, of the other selections there. I'm just gonna open it up, to the panel briefly. If anyone wants to comment on whether these results align with what you're seeing within your organization or with the organizations you deal with, or if you have any thoughts on this. Yeah. I'll I'll jump in real quick, Dan. And and certainly in higher education, I would almost combine the top two that, you know, yes, capital investment constraints, you know, have always been a challenge. But given the current political landscape and the funding cuts and additional threats, I think it just exasperates that challenge. And so, you know, in the short term, there's gonna be more focus on clear return on investment, you know, low hanging energy efficiency opportunities and such. And also another focus on, you know, how do we leverage alternative financing, you know, things like performance contracting, energy as a service, utility incentives, public private partnerships because investments are necessary. And if the budgets don't support them, we've we've got to find alternative means. So, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for that insight, Fred. Anyone else have any, thoughts on seeing the full results before we close it out? I'll I'll just kinda weigh in quickly as well. I I I think, capital on the capital future, debt and equity capital may be unavailable. You know, debt capital available at higher interest rates. These are kinda hard a couple of headline facts from our DCARP report. It's interesting because some owners have pending or recently passed mortgage renewals with a much higher interest carry. And I think that's so it it's kind of breathing a little bit, of more conservative approach to capital, just trying to, you know, take that take that more conservative approach. And so I think it it it fundamentally, when a bit of a capital environment, that's discouraging some of these long term investments that the the, you know, decarbonization requires, unfortunately. Definitely. Yeah. Thank you, Daryl. So with that, I think, we're at time. So I'd like to thank, everyone who's joined in attendance, and especially big thank you to our panelists, to Daryl, Fred, Craig, and Nicole. Really appreciated hearing all of your insights today. And I hope hope everyone has a great rest of their days. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Thanks, everyone.